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	<title>Comments on: Strange High Latency (Read) After Equallogic Firmware Upgrade (Solved!)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.modelcar.hk/?feed=rss2&#038;p=5768" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768</link>
	<description>My Die-Cast Collection &#38; Interests</description>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-2882</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 02:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-2882</guid>
		<description>This is what included in the latest EqualLogic Customer Connection (2013 Feb) Question of the Month:

Q: In VMware ESX environments, why does EQL suggest disabling Delayed ACK and Large Receive Offload (LRO)?

A: With a virtual environment, you want all data to be acknowledged and available quickly. When you use any receive offload technology, you are filling a big buffer before interrupting the CPU for processing. This &quot;delay&quot; can add artificial latency. As a result, ESXi v5.x will sometimes generate latency alarms on Datastores when Delayed ACK and/or LRO are enabled. In SANHQ you can see this effect. During very low I/O periods, the reported latency is high. Conversely, when under moderate load, the latency is low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what included in the latest EqualLogic Customer Connection (2013 Feb) Question of the Month:</p>
<p>Q: In VMware ESX environments, why does EQL suggest disabling Delayed ACK and Large Receive Offload (LRO)?</p>
<p>A: With a virtual environment, you want all data to be acknowledged and available quickly. When you use any receive offload technology, you are filling a big buffer before interrupting the CPU for processing. This &#8220;delay&#8221; can add artificial latency. As a result, ESXi v5.x will sometimes generate latency alarms on Datastores when Delayed ACK and/or LRO are enabled. In SANHQ you can see this effect. During very low I/O periods, the reported latency is high. Conversely, when under moderate load, the latency is low.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Darking</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1772</link>
		<dc:creator>Darking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1772</guid>
		<description>Thanks Don, i will have a look into this.

Btw. ive seen related high latency issues with Qlogic cards, in our case it was a special type of card that was the only one available for IBM pseries 520 and 550&#039;s.

They did not allow for any management of the HBA, and the support had to recommend us switching to normal Intel NICs instead.. which worked perfectly fine for our needs. I guess its one of the dangers of having vendor specific hardware, that functionality sometimes can be limited compared to just having bought a generic qlogic HBA. Pseries servers will not boot/enable with a non-IBM labled adapter though (we tried!!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Don, i will have a look into this.</p>
<p>Btw. ive seen related high latency issues with Qlogic cards, in our case it was a special type of card that was the only one available for IBM pseries 520 and 550&#8217;s.</p>
<p>They did not allow for any management of the HBA, and the support had to recommend us switching to normal Intel NICs instead.. which worked perfectly fine for our needs. I guess its one of the dangers of having vendor specific hardware, that functionality sometimes can be limited compared to just having bought a generic qlogic HBA. Pseries servers will not boot/enable with a non-IBM labled adapter though (we tried!!)</p>
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		<title>By: Don Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1766</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1766</guid>
		<description>Re: Derek and 4010 w/high latency @ low IO.  This one I can answer, since I&#039;ve seen it for years.  The QLogic cards tend to have the Nagle Algortithm enabled. On low IO periods, IO&#039;s are held until more IOs are pending.  The array is waiting for the ACK, the timer is running so the reported latency goes up. During normal IO nagle isn&#039;t in effect.  If you google for nagle delay you&#039;ll find a number of articles about it. 

here&#039;s some info on how to check it and disable it using SANSURFER. 

http://www.jwertheimer.com/help/qlogic/iSCSI_Help/configuring_an_HBAs_firmware_values.htm

Re: Delayed ACK. It&#039;s not a one size fits all solution.  So many variables with IO loads, etc..   

I can say that it has helped many customers. 

Also, you have to run a vm-support after the reboot. I&#039;ve noticed with ESXi v5 that it doesn&#039;t consistently set the value to &quot;0&quot;.  So if you saw no change, it may not actually be disabled. Or only some of the LUNs will show disabled. 

If you untar the vm-support file and go to the &quot;commands&quot; sub-directory do a #grep Delayed * &#124; more 

You&#039;ll get a list of &quot;nodes&quot; that refer to the LUNs. It will end with =&quot;0&quot; or =&quot;1&quot;.  One (1) is enabled. 

Sometimes I&#039;ve had to remove the discovery address, reboot, add it back in, then select &quot;Advanced&quot; and scroll down to verify that &quot;Delayed ACK&quot; doesn&#039;t have a check next to it. 

rescan and then re-do vm-support to check the settings again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Derek and 4010 w/high latency @ low IO.  This one I can answer, since I&#8217;ve seen it for years.  The QLogic cards tend to have the Nagle Algortithm enabled. On low IO periods, IO&#8217;s are held until more IOs are pending.  The array is waiting for the ACK, the timer is running so the reported latency goes up. During normal IO nagle isn&#8217;t in effect.  If you google for nagle delay you&#8217;ll find a number of articles about it. </p>
<p>here&#8217;s some info on how to check it and disable it using SANSURFER. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.jwertheimer.com/help/qlogic/iSCSI_Help/configuring_an_HBAs_firmware_values.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.jwertheimer.com/help/qlogic/iSCSI_Help/configuring_an_HBAs_firmware_values.htm</a></p>
<p>Re: Delayed ACK. It&#8217;s not a one size fits all solution.  So many variables with IO loads, etc..   </p>
<p>I can say that it has helped many customers. </p>
<p>Also, you have to run a vm-support after the reboot. I&#8217;ve noticed with ESXi v5 that it doesn&#8217;t consistently set the value to &#8220;0&#8243;.  So if you saw no change, it may not actually be disabled. Or only some of the LUNs will show disabled. </p>
<p>If you untar the vm-support file and go to the &#8220;commands&#8221; sub-directory do a #grep Delayed * | more </p>
<p>You&#8217;ll get a list of &#8220;nodes&#8221; that refer to the LUNs. It will end with =&#8221;0&#8243; or =&#8221;1&#8243;.  One (1) is enabled. </p>
<p>Sometimes I&#8217;ve had to remove the discovery address, reboot, add it back in, then select &#8220;Advanced&#8221; and scroll down to verify that &#8220;Delayed ACK&#8221; doesn&#8217;t have a check next to it. </p>
<p>rescan and then re-do vm-support to check the settings again.</p>
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		<title>By: Darking</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1728</link>
		<dc:creator>Darking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 18:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1728</guid>
		<description>Yeah i think i need to, because i just rechecked my entire enviroment, and everything but linux servers have disabled tcp ACK delay. and i havnt really found any instructions for it anywhere</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah i think i need to, because i just rechecked my entire enviroment, and everything but linux servers have disabled tcp ACK delay. and i havnt really found any instructions for it anywhere</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1718</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 03:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1718</guid>
		<description>Darking, I would suggest you to re-open the case with Equallogic support and escalate your case to their Performance Engineer.

Btw, I just found out Disabling Delayed Ack on ESX also &lt;a target=new href=&quot;http://kenumemoto.blogspot.com/2012/03/slow-read-performance-from-storage.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;improved IOPS&lt;/a&gt; (and some more on VMTN) and Delayed Ack was re-enabled by default in ESXi 5 somehow, mentioned somewhere in VMTN as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darking, I would suggest you to re-open the case with Equallogic support and escalate your case to their Performance Engineer.</p>
<p>Btw, I just found out Disabling Delayed Ack on ESX also <a target=new href="http://kenumemoto.blogspot.com/2012/03/slow-read-performance-from-storage.html" rel="nofollow">improved IOPS</a> (and some more on VMTN) and Delayed Ack was re-enabled by default in ESXi 5 somehow, mentioned somewhere in VMTN as well.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Darking</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1705</link>
		<dc:creator>Darking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 14:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1705</guid>
		<description>Really odd that it didnt fix my issue, i suppose our loads might just be a bit different :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really odd that it didnt fix my issue, i suppose our loads might just be a bit different <img src='http://www.modelcar.hk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1704</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 08:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1704</guid>
		<description>Update: 

The mystery has been SOLVED finally after almost 1 complete month!

For details, please refer to the update I&#039;ve added to the end of this blog article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update: </p>
<p>The mystery has been SOLVED finally after almost 1 complete month!</p>
<p>For details, please refer to the update I&#8217;ve added to the end of this blog article.</p>
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		<title>By: Darking</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1703</link>
		<dc:creator>Darking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 06:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1703</guid>
		<description>Oh and since dell is looking into these, my support case number is Case # 00321924 Tom Dewey (Technical Support Engineer) looked into my case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and since dell is looking into these, my support case number is Case # 00321924 Tom Dewey (Technical Support Engineer) looked into my case.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Darking</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1702</link>
		<dc:creator>Darking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 06:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1702</guid>
		<description>The whole nagle /Delayed Ack is a wild goose chase.

I was told exactly the same, and turned it off on my entire vmware enviroment, and it had no effect at all.

In my mind, something with the reporting of performance numbers has changed in the firmware between 5.0.7 and 5.1.2 that causes SANHQ to report elevated values. As previously stated, im not seeing any latency issues on the volumes, nor anything on my vmware or other directly connected hosts.

Its a shame they cannot figure out what it is, but i suppose they are limited in what statistics/diags the arrays show them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole nagle /Delayed Ack is a wild goose chase.</p>
<p>I was told exactly the same, and turned it off on my entire vmware enviroment, and it had no effect at all.</p>
<p>In my mind, something with the reporting of performance numbers has changed in the firmware between 5.0.7 and 5.1.2 that causes SANHQ to report elevated values. As previously stated, im not seeing any latency issues on the volumes, nor anything on my vmware or other directly connected hosts.</p>
<p>Its a shame they cannot figure out what it is, but i suppose they are limited in what statistics/diags the arrays show them.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1701</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 02:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.modelcar.hk/?p=5768#comment-1701</guid>
		<description>I am using HIT 4.0 for Windows, but the problem is related to VMware ESX as my Windows platform hardly use EQL box.

Anyway, I do think it&#039;s a bug in FW v5.1.x/v5.2.x, but the funny thing is Don (EQL VMware specialist) posted on VMTM saying enabling Delayed ACK will cause artificial latency, this explained why we do not have any performance issue, but only seeing the fake high latency on SANHQ.

I shall schedule a time slot for disabling Delayed Ack in ESX and report back my findings later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am using HIT 4.0 for Windows, but the problem is related to VMware ESX as my Windows platform hardly use EQL box.</p>
<p>Anyway, I do think it&#8217;s a bug in FW v5.1.x/v5.2.x, but the funny thing is Don (EQL VMware specialist) posted on VMTM saying enabling Delayed ACK will cause artificial latency, this explained why we do not have any performance issue, but only seeing the fake high latency on SANHQ.</p>
<p>I shall schedule a time slot for disabling Delayed Ack in ESX and report back my findings later.</p>
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